MAILBOX: Heineken Cup shenanigans
With the future of the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup still hanging in the balance, it has become quite clear where our readers’ loyalties lie. Nobody wants to see Europe’s biggest rugby tournaments come to an end. This is what you had to say about the the European shenanigans…
If the French and English clubs don’t want to participate in the HC next year, why should that stop the Irish, Italians, Scots and Welsh from participating? Are the English and French so self-important that they are going to tell us we can’t have a HC unless they are playing? Why should the internal squabblings of the French and English jeopardise a great competition for the rest of us?
– Thomas Fothringham
Given the compelling rugby it has served up this season and the full part played by the Celts would anyone want to scupper this glorious competition for something so much less significant?
Sadly the evidence suggests the answer is yes, some greedy selfish people would do European rugby, and I believe themselves into the bargain, serious damage.
I can understand the French claims that they play too much rugby, yes and of such poor quality to boot! One can argue the Super 14 of the League National aren’t actually so super and perhaps 8 might be a truer reflection of what is fairly good in French club rugby.
Rather like the League, Serge presides over both should shed some unsightly excess, the clubs aren’t playing well and the national side flatters to deceive. Frankly given how they have performed these last two seasons in Europe maybe the withdrawal by the French clubs is more an exercise in embarrassment limitation.
England are out of sorts at a national level, and while its clubs have done admirably to have three representatives in the last 4, even if Saints were bloody lucky with their group, is anyone seriously suggesting that a competition excluding the Celts would generate more excitement?
What about development of the European game, there seems to be agreement that the Heineken Cup is the nearest thing to test conditions up here, if we dilute the competition are we not doing harm to Northern Hemisphere rugby?
The Premiership clubs may well feel they owe something to their stakeholders and both the English and French parties should consider the well being of their players, but pulling out of the Heineken Cup is a blow to the viewing and so paying fans.
I’d be bitterly disappointed if the Cup went and would find it unconscionable if the English and French clubs had a little kick about for themselves instead.
– Nick Parry-Jones (Heineken Cup fan in Paris)
Why the hell can’t the IRB sit down with all the parties and sort out the major issues of the season and the competitions? Blanco makes some very good points, as have others. They should all meet for an emergency weekend debate and be locked away until they come up with a rationale that all nations can work with. There needs to a commitment to do this before the end of May.
In the meantime, threats of boycotts should be withdrawn. Procrastination, self-interest and greed are in danger of turning rugby’s success into defeat, unless the competing powers can settle their differences and provide a platform for future stability.
My contingency plan for the Heineken Cup, if the French and English don’t want to play, would be to invite the 2nd tier nations to compete in it, ie Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Georgia, Russia could all enter teams. They would welcome the opportunity and the sponsors would still get very good exposure.
– Alan Wood (Cork)
Glad to see the Clubs put the F U, back into the RFU!
– Gavin Smith
The English/French boycott is bad news for Rugby globally. Beyond England and France the Celtic nations will feel an economic impact of loosing the HEC. Beyond the Celtic countries if Blanco gets his way and Rugby follows the soccer path, then the S14 will become a feeder to the French championship, Kiwi’s won’t just loose the top players at the end of their careers. They will try and grab the best players from across the globe, there is no balance in the soccer model.
In short, the IRB should perhaps consider if its worth letting France hold a RWC this year, why not move it to Ireland, Wales and Scotland, so that they can get some financial compensation? Why not let England and France play themselves and have an alternative 6 nations involving SANZAR.
If Rugby Union as the world knows it is to survive, then Blanco has to be stopped from implementing his plans. The man is a menace to the global game.
– Michael Lewis
I think it’s a disgrace!
England and France should be kicked out of the Six Nations and never allowed back in.
The best tournament in the world and they screw it up….
– John Foley
France and England should not only boycott the H cup but set up their own competition. This will be economically disastrous for Wales, Ireland and Scotland who will start to lose their best players to the English and French Clubs. It has already started in Scotland. Devoid of any meaningful competition support for professional rugby in these countries will dwindle, Scotland again, and their international teams will lose their competitive edge. The 6 Nations will become a two horse race with England and France dominating. Rugby, instead of expanding as a World sport, contracts.
– Michael Harris
It doesn’t matter what the people say, it’s all about the money for the clubs – sponsors and ownership. Let’s take the clubs ownership out of the sport. Apart from the initial few dollars/pounds/euros, they’ve contributed very little else to the game in the north. Ultimately, the best period for the game here was when England won the RWC and that had absolutely nothing to do with the clubs. Quite frankly, the IRB needs to take the lead and review this with its members. Perhaps it’s an opportunity to restructure the game with the Rugby Unions as the central administrator. It may cost a few dollars in the short term but the long-term benefits clearly exist from a rugby world without political infighting (remember again the RFU profits around the RWC 2003). Rugby is the loser here and that’s ultimately the sad fact.
– RHD (Kiwi in Belgium)
This is a disaster, Serge Blanco – a great player in his day – will now be known as the man who killed professional rugby. They have killed the golden goose. The Heineken cup generates so much revenue for clubs and there are also the benefits of tourism. As a Leinster fan, I was on two away trips this year, to Gloucester and Wasps. Believe me the Exchequer benefited from those trips.
The Heineken Cup is now a more compelling competition than the Six Nations. It’s also much harder to win.
Confused, annoyed, enraged!
– Brendan Grehan (Leinster fan from Ballymun, Dublin)
I think that the Heineken Cup should go ahead without these greedy money grabbing (French & English) clubs.
Of course the home union should have control in their own country. The income they earn is ploughed back into the grass roots of the game which in turn grooms and produces these same players who represent the competing clubs.
The clubs academies only recruit players after they have proved themselves either at school or later in their careers. The same applies to their star or international players. All of these players have been coached and groomed with the financial assistance of the varies rugby unions.
These clubs must not be seen to be the sole financial beneficiaries, the clubs benefit with television and gate revenue, with the increased income they get through such competitions as the Heineken cup.
Say no, be strong.
– Des Egan
So it’s more dross from the Premiership and no more Ospreys v Stade, Leicester vs Munster etc – who pays your wages guys? We do, the fans [and the TV companies] – this is the most retrograde step for European rugby since professionalism. Myopic rather than short sighted. I have just thrown my season ticket application form in the bin.
– Gareth Hopkins
It would be disastrous to lose the HC. The standard of this competition is close to International. Many of us cannot get tickets for the 6 nations.
This is great rugby and great weekends away.
Knock their heads together and get it sorted.
– Wyn Morgan
Northern Hemisphere Rugby’s capacity for self destruction never ceases to amaze me. There are obviously unresolved county/club and fixture congestion issues here and the H cup is merely a vehicle, a stalking horse, the sacrificial lamb to these politics. The H cup has emerged as a leading high status tournament which brings valuable income, high intensity competition with high skill levels and a whole bunch of spectators to the game.If you doubt this, you clearly weren’t at Toulouse vs Scarlets or Scarlets vs Munster; amazing rugby, amazing atmosphere.The Celts will really suffer the most. We will feel it badly in Wales with regional rugby still in its relative infancy – will the last rugby in Scotland please put the lights out before it leaves.Enland and France have a relatively strong championship structure and won’t feel the absence of the cup that badly, but will still not be immune.The sponsors and the fans will go elsewhere. The credibility of the game, not to mention the livelihood of many players is at stake. I sense that a few blazer-wearing stuffed shirts may need to jump or be pushed but essentially I don’t really care whose fault it is – all parties involved should start acting like grown-ups, stop slagging each other off in public and work together to resolve their differences and sort this out.
The rest of the World is laughing at us (again!!)
– Richard Williams (Swansea, Wales)
The arrogance of the French and English Clubs in holding European Rugby to ransom will not be forgotten by the rest of Europe. Serge Blanco was a great player in his day but now is the epitome of French arrogance. If the English and French clubs destroy the Heineken Cup – the premier club tournament in the world – they will deserve the odium of every true follower of rugby throughout the world.
– Thomas Deacon
I partially agree about being ashamed; the biggest rugby tournament, with a huge sponsor, is being put to shame through these public spats (which I thought were restricted to South African rugby). This is definitely not good for the global image of rugby, especially not when combined with the All Black/Super 14 troubles.
However, let’s hope they get things sorted out; it’s absolutely ridiculous for the player to play Premiership, EDF Cup, Heineken Cup, Six Nations, Autumn Internationals and summer tours. Something has to be done about the workload. First of all, it would be better from a spectator point of view to have more congested blocks. For example, start with eight rounds of Premiership action, then the complete Heineken cup pool stages, Premiership, Six Nations, end of the Heineken Cup, Premiership play-offs.
Personally, I can’t be bothered with the EDF cup. It doesn’t add anything the Heineken Cup doesn’t have (with a bit of a lucky draw), and it’s nothing more than a money-maker. Players are forced into an extra competition, which to me seems nothing more than a distraction.
I would ditch the EDF Cup and the 2nd European division. Make teams fight for a Heineken Cup spot. The top teams have the resources to fight on two fronts. The bottom teams probably haven’t (thinking of Northampton, Worcester, Albi etc). They could focus on Premiership survival, and thus would need smaller squads, but with more quality.
Try and sort out a global season; the northern hemisphere top players play around 30 matches per season. I guess the average French or English international plays around 50-60 matches per season, on wet pitches, resulting in much more physical matches.
It’s probably all about money, but there enough matches I simply can’t be bothered with anymore. It’s just a repeat of what’s been going on already, and the same probably goes for the players. More isn’t always better.
– Sander Baas
I am a huge rugby nut and the Heineken Cup is wonderful competition that just gets better with age. I am absolutely not interested at all in the politics, I can’t even be bothered to read the reams of articles. The Heineken Cup is for the players and supporters, and that is precisely why all the parties who have influence in this debacle should resolve the differences for the greater good of the game and stop the bickering that is corroding the image of our wonderful sport.
– Scott (Gloucester expatriate in London)
As an interested observer from the Southern Hemisphere I have to say I’m not surprised at the mal administration of Northern Hemisphere rugby.
Clearly we are not the only part of the rugby world that has administrators incapable of considering the game and why we play it, of thinking of themselves, their points scoring against other parties, their short-sightedness, their basic failure to understand that rugby is a fiendishly enjoyable game for players.
Our administration here in the Wide Brown Land too is riven with bloody-mindedness by administrators and managers determined to exert their authority over rugby which should properly be the preserve of players. Surely we players haven’t had our heads in too many scrums to be rendered incapable of running the game better? God knows we couldn’t foul it up worse than these clods.
– Bruce (Australia)
Ashamed and disgusted! What has happened to our great game when notions of obligations and sportsmanship go out the window. Do these self-serving clubs think that the real fans are so blind to the interests of the game as a whole that they are prepared to sacrifice the structure of the game for the well being of their individual club? I don’t think so.
Rugby fans no matter how fiercely they might support their team have always taken pride in being part of the greater community of Rugby. That’s why there is so little trouble at matches. You can see this breaking down, as this sort of thing becomes more common.
It is also difficult to hear Martyn Thomas piously calling the French action,”…reprehensible” and that he will seek compensation from the French for the financial damage to “the smaller Celtic Unions”. He means of course those Unions already damaged by the English clubs withdrawal from what is known as the Magners League. The rot started there!
– Geoff Lake
Over the years, we have watched English rugby slowly tearing itself apart, seemingly unaware of the wider rugby world, and thanked our lucky stars that English clubs do not play in the Magners League, which, contrary to media opinion in England, is a grown-up league where three national unions and eleven participating teams get on well enough to have a structured, coordinated season that benefits rugby at both national and club level.
Now that the English and French dispute is affecting us all, here’s a rugby fan asking them to stop treating the whole of NH rugby as a bargaining tool to be used for their own hair-pulling, playground disputes.
Things may not be great in Scotland just now, but at least we don’t think the whole of Europe should be made to suffer until we learn to behave like adults instead of screaming infants.
– Thomas (Perth)
Players from the top European teams play a grueling schedule which rugby fans pay dearly for when our national teams meet against the Southern hemisphere nations. The old chaps ruling the commercial side of Euro rugby now have no choice but to sit down at the table with players and club owners and iron out a fair deal. This is a case of old fashion squabble over power and money. The old boys running the business are loathe to see their authority challenged, but had they proven to have two ounces of common sense and an ability to swallow their pride and negotiate, the situation could have been solved.
Top players play too much rugby in Europe. Full stop. Less games are needed. Better schedules need to be set. The rest is irrelevant.
– Thomas Wavelet
Totally fair, why should Blanco try and get involved in English disputes. The French bought the Celtic nations to dilute the RWC 2007 and now they are trying it with the English. The RWC would have been better with the English bid and ideas for this RWC, but the French bought out the Celtic nations and now they are interring again in the English set up.
As a supporter I have met some great fans. French, Irish and English so far and I was looking forward to more traveling, supporting and mixing with other fans, what a pity and all due to egos. Scottish rugby will die, Connacht will go, Wales and Italy will suffer and the big boys France and England will keep going. It is an embarrassing time for rugby and rather sad.
– Tom Spaight
