Pichot reflects on Argentina's troubles
'Argentina has to find answers in Argentina'
Argentina captain Agustín Pichot has taken time out of an impossibly hectic schedule to chat to Planet Rugby about the current problems striking at the heart of Argentine rugby.
About 60 players declared they would not represent the Pumas during the forthcoming Tests against Wales and New Zealand, claiming that they were not receiving sufficient support from the Argentina Rugby Union (UAR).
The players then agreed to play after discussions with Argentina bosses, but the agreement to honour the Tests is more of a temporary ceasefire than a lasting peace treaty.
Pichot insists that the problems are not money-related as many believe, saying that he and other senior Pumas "would all play for free if we thought that would progress matters".
According to the veteran scrum-half, the main grievance is the UAR's failure to grow the game domestically – an issue that has angered many of Argentina's overseas-based players who yearn to return from foreign fields to play professional rugby at home.
Below is a full transcript of the interview, given on the eve of the Stade Français scrum-half's departure from France to Argentina for a Test series that very nearly did not happen.
PR: Have all the players agreed to cease the strike completely?
AP: We have. But we haven't agreed terms with the board. But for the future of rugby in Argentina we decided to play. Otherwise it would have shown a lack of respect to Wales as well. Unfortunately we have had to do something we did not want to do up to now.
PR: What will happen after the tour?
AP: The ball is in the court of the guys of the UAR to come forward with a proper plan. I think they are trying, one hopes they will try, because Argentine rugby needs to carry on as it has been doing the last couple of years, and absolutely not like we have been the last six months.
PR: What are the financial details of your trip home for the June Tests now?
AP: The Union is now paying for the air fares, and we will discuss the rest of the arrangements when we get there. But, we are not worried about the immediate economic impact, we are talking about the preparations, and the whole way in which we need to develop as a team and as a rugby country. The future of Argentine rugby is really at stake here. We hope that this action will awaken the people at the UAR, and also the presidents of all the clubs in the country, so that the ask themselves: 'where do we want to go now? Do we want to stay amateur forever, or do we want to be competitive and support our players?'
PR: How long has the discontent been brewing?
AP: There are two aspects. One is the international aspect, the other is domestic. On the international scene, we were waiting for the great powers of the world – South Africa, New Zealand and the rest – to give us a chance, probably in the Tri-Nations. But it never happened. We saw that the Six Nations was not possible, we saw the Tri-Nations is not possible. Maybe – maybe – there is a chance to organise something with the Americas. You can say we are better than them, but for how long has France and England been dominating the Six Nations? But because we could not find a competition, and because we knew nothing would happen until 2009 because of the contract which they [SANZAR] signed in 2005, we got together and thought about doing something locally. The local drive was going well, and although the players were based abroad, we were preparing well and building well as a team and as a country. That all changed drastically with the new UAR guys that came in.
PR: There was talk not so long ago about a South American Super League along the same lines as the Super 14, involving teams from Argentina and also Chile. What is the state of play with this?
AP: I stayed in Argentina personally to help organise this last year. I was there for three weeks planning that. It had the makings of a great tournament, and the IRB had cleared us the funds US$2.1m. But the new people did not agree with the structure, and so we never asked the IRB for the money. It is very frustrating. Now we do not know what is going on with that.
PR: Is there enough of a player base in Argentina to create a league that could rival the Top 14, Super 14 and the Guinness Premiership?
AP: I think there is. You have to create a structure for them, and this takes time, but you have 30/40 [Argentine] players who are first choice for their clubs in the Top 14, next season that will be more. You have several in the Premiership as well. What we have to do is make sure that the players begin to stop going abroad, to keep them in Argentina and help them improve there. If we could build the championship we talked about before, we could have competitiveness for four or five months of the year. It would not be a world-class league straight away, it takes time. But you need to start somewhere. We need to plan for this. This really is the main point of the whole thing. Argentina has to find answers in Argentina, not by letting players go to foreign countries. That does little for the development of the game here. It is just an organisational thing, and Argentina and its union should say to itself, 'what do we want, where to we want to be?' and think about its players, they always say the game is about the players, but they don't do so much.
PR: Would players such as yourself go back to Argentina to play in a domestic league if one was organised?
AP: I think so. What do we do now? I fly tomorrow [Sunday, June 4], I have a five-hour train journey, a twelve-hour flight, then I have to connect to the venue for the first Test in Puerto Madryn, where I arrive on Monday. We start training the Tuesday morning, and we play a Test on Saturday. Most of the guys haven't played together for seven months. Wales have been in Argentina for a week already. It doesn't make sense, and it is so frustrating. We [a group of Argentina's senior players] were going to go back, if possible, in January 2007. That was the plan. We go back, start a league, go to the World Cup that year, and leave this thing going there. Some young guys, like Juan Hernández, who are well-paid in Europe, they will always be here in France. But if we could just get it going in Argentina, maybe there would be a base of 200 local players, playing in a competitive league, who would not be ready to take a contract from a European team.
PR: Would the teams in Argentina have the financial clout to match the likes of Stade Français, Leicester Tigers and other European sides? Wouldn't you struggle to hold onto the brightest talents anyway?
AP: I don't think so. I wanted to be the best, and it was not about money. I went to school, to university – a lot of players in Argentina won't be persuaded by money. They will be there for their education until 21-22, and then you say, ok, you can leave. Or you can stay here with family, friends, and earn enough to live, train and play the rugby that you love, in your country, with your friends, with a good structure. This is what Argentina needs, but the guys at the UAR are not helping with this.
PR: But will it not be frustrating for the best players who will not test themselves against the best regularly at home?
AP: But this is the point of the development. We do this, build it up, make it a success, and then we pressure the IRB and other organisations, tell them we have done all this on our own, and to give us a hand in the calendars and competitions. It is like the chicken and the egg, what to get first – the international matches for the profile of the game in Argentina, or the league in the country to raise the profile domestically before internationally? But now we know we can get no help in international tournaments, we should say, 'ok, let's do it this way'. We have to now, we have no choice anymore. The union must see this. It is not about the money. We would all play for free if we thought that would progress matters. The court case [concerning an injured club player] we have heard about was cleared and the IRB is ready to give the union the money for the league, so it is not about that. It goes much deeper into the future of game in Argentina.
By Danny Stephens
